There has been a lot of back and forth about revising the minimum standards. There has been a great deal of effort made to revise the ABSMS by a group of surveyors from all over the state. Their efforts are to be applauded. The current standards leave much to be desired and were an attempt to fix a problem they weren't equipped to fix.
I have begun to think that maybe minimum standards for our practice is the wrong approach. Maybe we should think about a "Manual of Surveying Instructions for the Private Land within the State of Arizona". Much like the template of the BLM Manual. I envision it to be structured like this:
Chapter 1 - Authorities
State Board of Technical Registration Rules and Statutes
Chapter 2 - County Subdivisions
County Subdivision Statutes
Chapter 3 - City Subdivisions
City Subdivision Statutes
Chapter 4 - Dependent Resurveys & Independent Resurveys
Subdivisions
Public Land Survey System
Tracts, Mineral Claims, Special Surveys
Chapter 5 - Platting
General requirements for platting
County Recorder Requirements
Chapter 6 - Field Notes / Legal Descriptions
General Construction of legal descriptions
Chapter 7 - Easements and Right of Ways
Chapter 8 - Control Surveying
Chapter 9 - Topographic mapping
Chapter 10 - Definitions
Chapter 11 - Index of Case Law.
Wouldn't a manual serve our purpose to educated better than a "minimum standard"?
Thursday, January 23, 2014
Friday, December 20, 2013
Lesson Learned
Being Chairman of APLS has taught me something. Even the best of intentions can be resisted if the other side feels shut out. I have come to realize that APLS is NOT structured for all of its members to agree on everything. No matter how bad I want us to. So from this point forward I am not going to hammer my opinion. I will offer my point of view and if you agree so be it if you disagree so be it. If you want to talk about it we can. However I won't be arguing to change any point of view. I will simply offer mine and listen you to yours.
Surveying Stuff......
I have been spending the last 2 months marking and posting national forest boundary. I love this work. Being out in the woods; the physical exertion; and the recovery of 100 year old HES corners. On one particular job the Boundary was a considerable distance inside a landowners fence. So we made contact and myself and the landowner looked for the HES corner. She kept looking around the fence and I crawled into a manzanita and there it was. I cleared the brush and showed her the chiseled "WC 8 HES ...." on the face of the sandstone. She became very angry. After several minutes of discourse she ask me to vacate the property. So we did. As we were leaving she said and I quote "F#$%ing rocks; I thought surveyors used satellites"; I am still laughing about that.
Merry Christmas ALL.
Surveying Stuff......
I have been spending the last 2 months marking and posting national forest boundary. I love this work. Being out in the woods; the physical exertion; and the recovery of 100 year old HES corners. On one particular job the Boundary was a considerable distance inside a landowners fence. So we made contact and myself and the landowner looked for the HES corner. She kept looking around the fence and I crawled into a manzanita and there it was. I cleared the brush and showed her the chiseled "WC 8 HES ...." on the face of the sandstone. She became very angry. After several minutes of discourse she ask me to vacate the property. So we did. As we were leaving she said and I quote "F#$%ing rocks; I thought surveyors used satellites"; I am still laughing about that.
Merry Christmas ALL.
Monday, December 2, 2013
When to ignore a monument accessory
I have been working on several posting jobs for the forest service. I have been noticing something in the Payson area that I did not expect. The bearing trees when measured from side center or face (more on that later) do fit the record call. The BT is there the stone is there; the bearing and distance is questionable.
So when I move to another HES corner; the stone is missing. There is a fence corner an one of the BT's of record. Also the HES was subdivided. First I checked the BT to the fence corner and it was close. Within a trash can lid. The lot corners I recovered all pointed to the fence post with a probable area of about a quarter. Well the answer was obvious;..........................
I used to be of the frame of mind that the manual was gospel and there was no deviation. Here lately I have discovered that subsequent lot corner may be a better accessory than a bearing tree.
More about the side center vs. face of blaze. In some circles this oddity is well known. Most surveyors under 50 don't know that in many parts of Arizona; mineral surveyors were also contracting with the forest service and GLO. In so doing it is not uncommon to find bearing trees on HES corners that are measured to the face of the blaze. This is the rule for mineral surveys; however for PLSS work; the side center is the rule.
In my case neither worked so I noted it and moved on...
So when I move to another HES corner; the stone is missing. There is a fence corner an one of the BT's of record. Also the HES was subdivided. First I checked the BT to the fence corner and it was close. Within a trash can lid. The lot corners I recovered all pointed to the fence post with a probable area of about a quarter. Well the answer was obvious;..........................
I used to be of the frame of mind that the manual was gospel and there was no deviation. Here lately I have discovered that subsequent lot corner may be a better accessory than a bearing tree.
More about the side center vs. face of blaze. In some circles this oddity is well known. Most surveyors under 50 don't know that in many parts of Arizona; mineral surveyors were also contracting with the forest service and GLO. In so doing it is not uncommon to find bearing trees on HES corners that are measured to the face of the blaze. This is the rule for mineral surveys; however for PLSS work; the side center is the rule.
In my case neither worked so I noted it and moved on...
Monday, November 4, 2013
Arizona Professional Land Surveyors and You
For those that don't know I am the Chairman of APLS. As the chairman I have assumed the role as the figure head of this organization. I have been continuously involved with APLS for 28 years. I am writing this as a means of getting the word out about APLS.
APLS was chartered as an organization of surveying professionals who sought to make the profession of Land Surveying better. Having said that I think we can all agree that some in the profession will not always agree with the direction has has been going. First with CEUs and now the revisions to the minimum standards.
I believe it is important for everyone to remember that although we all may not agree on the particular route APLS may take in the betterment of the profession. The end game is to make things better for the practicing surveyor in Arizona. At the moment the surveying profession is beset with several challenges that lie ahead. Recently the SBTR let us know that they intend to refine the definition of surveying in the state. APLS and the SBTR may not agree on all positions; we as APLS has tried to act as a single sounding board for what surveyors would like to see. Again some don't agree with the route APLS is taking but I think the majority agree that the current state of affairs is less than what is desired.
What the practicing surveyor needs to know is that membership is strictly voluntary and as a member you can influence how APLS policy will answer these challenges. It would be nice if all practicing land surveyors joined but that is not reality. So many will strike out on their own and voice opinions to the SBTR. To them I say good luck and God's speed. However it would be nice if we all came together as one voice and spoke from a position of strength to the SBTR. This is where I believe the chapters can make a real difference. If the chapters were to open their meetings up to non-members then the non-member could see we do not act under the cover of darkness but out in the open. Together we can accomplish the goals we all agree on. On the issues we don't agree on we can at least have an educated debate and clarify what issues are important.
APLS was chartered as an organization of surveying professionals who sought to make the profession of Land Surveying better. Having said that I think we can all agree that some in the profession will not always agree with the direction has has been going. First with CEUs and now the revisions to the minimum standards.
I believe it is important for everyone to remember that although we all may not agree on the particular route APLS may take in the betterment of the profession. The end game is to make things better for the practicing surveyor in Arizona. At the moment the surveying profession is beset with several challenges that lie ahead. Recently the SBTR let us know that they intend to refine the definition of surveying in the state. APLS and the SBTR may not agree on all positions; we as APLS has tried to act as a single sounding board for what surveyors would like to see. Again some don't agree with the route APLS is taking but I think the majority agree that the current state of affairs is less than what is desired.
What the practicing surveyor needs to know is that membership is strictly voluntary and as a member you can influence how APLS policy will answer these challenges. It would be nice if all practicing land surveyors joined but that is not reality. So many will strike out on their own and voice opinions to the SBTR. To them I say good luck and God's speed. However it would be nice if we all came together as one voice and spoke from a position of strength to the SBTR. This is where I believe the chapters can make a real difference. If the chapters were to open their meetings up to non-members then the non-member could see we do not act under the cover of darkness but out in the open. Together we can accomplish the goals we all agree on. On the issues we don't agree on we can at least have an educated debate and clarify what issues are important.
Friday, September 27, 2013
What is considered good research?
I have been to countless seminars; classes, and lectures; that all said that the survey starts with research. Going to the Recorders/Clerks office and pulling deeds and surveys. With this in mind; how in the hell did the Assessor's Tax Parcel Identification Number become the replacement. I will stipulate that the assessor's office can be a good place to start research. HOWEVER, the assessor's office is not the only place to do the research.
I have been seeing a trend that where records of survey have been citing the assessors parcel number as the basis of their research. Really? What happens when the number changes? There is no short cut to doing the research. Do it write or don't do it at all.
Viva La SALSA
I have been seeing a trend that where records of survey have been citing the assessors parcel number as the basis of their research. Really? What happens when the number changes? There is no short cut to doing the research. Do it write or don't do it at all.
Viva La SALSA
Tuesday, September 10, 2013
More than Measurers Part 2
Here lately I have had the opportunity to speak with colleagues around the state. There seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding in what the land surveyor is trying to accomplish. I have met people who can measure to the Nth degree of accuracy. Yet, their boundary conclusion is EXACTLY wrong.
How can a profession concentrate so heavily on the science of measurement and neglect the art of understanding evidence. How did arbitrary numbers become more important than evidence of occupation and use? Why do we hide behind measurements and ignore the true facts laying there before us?
As a for instance:
SurvA gets a call to locate the corners of lot 9 Nonya Acres. The subdivision is the SE1/4NW1/4 and the SW1/4NE1/4 and the NW1/4SE1/4 and the NE1/4SW1/4 of Section 10 T1NR1E Yomama PM. The County of Utopia has created a Coordinate data base of all section and 1/4 section monuments (that existed at the time of the survey) for the entire county. SurvA goes the the County's website pulls the subdivision plat and the Coordinates for the Section Corners. Then proceeds calculate his way into lot 9. Having created this mathematically superior sketch; uploads the data to the data collector and hands it off to his technician and says "go forth and do great things"... The PC arrives at the address; turns on the GPS and stakes out the coordinates setting new pins because there wasn't any at the stakeout and drives to the local park to grab some shade and enjoy a cold drink because he doesn't want to get back to office to early.
Upon returning to the office the technician downloads his Data collector and give the CAD guy his data. CAD guy takes a hour to create a Record of Survey; showing the section corner ties to the lot perimeter. Plots it to mylar and lays it on the RLS's desk. RLS signs it and gives it to the office clerk who takes it to the county for recordation. AHHHH, the field to finish survey. Bodda Bing, its done and billed.
Next morning the phone rings...... Its the client; seems the pins on the east are in his yard and the pins on the west are in his neighbors yard...neighbors are mad and fighting and your client wants an explanation. So the RLS says: "Well the location of the lot is where we staked it. If that isn't where you are occupying contact you title company and have them help you fix it because everyone in that block has the same problem." The client hangs up and is now being threatened with a lawsuit.
Questions to Ponder:
1. Was there any direct supervision of anybody by the RLS?
2. Did the RLS evaluate the evidence of the boundary?
3. Where is Lot 9?
4. Was life better as a party chief or an RLS?
How can a profession concentrate so heavily on the science of measurement and neglect the art of understanding evidence. How did arbitrary numbers become more important than evidence of occupation and use? Why do we hide behind measurements and ignore the true facts laying there before us?
As a for instance:
SurvA gets a call to locate the corners of lot 9 Nonya Acres. The subdivision is the SE1/4NW1/4 and the SW1/4NE1/4 and the NW1/4SE1/4 and the NE1/4SW1/4 of Section 10 T1NR1E Yomama PM. The County of Utopia has created a Coordinate data base of all section and 1/4 section monuments (that existed at the time of the survey) for the entire county. SurvA goes the the County's website pulls the subdivision plat and the Coordinates for the Section Corners. Then proceeds calculate his way into lot 9. Having created this mathematically superior sketch; uploads the data to the data collector and hands it off to his technician and says "go forth and do great things"... The PC arrives at the address; turns on the GPS and stakes out the coordinates setting new pins because there wasn't any at the stakeout and drives to the local park to grab some shade and enjoy a cold drink because he doesn't want to get back to office to early.
Upon returning to the office the technician downloads his Data collector and give the CAD guy his data. CAD guy takes a hour to create a Record of Survey; showing the section corner ties to the lot perimeter. Plots it to mylar and lays it on the RLS's desk. RLS signs it and gives it to the office clerk who takes it to the county for recordation. AHHHH, the field to finish survey. Bodda Bing, its done and billed.
Next morning the phone rings...... Its the client; seems the pins on the east are in his yard and the pins on the west are in his neighbors yard...neighbors are mad and fighting and your client wants an explanation. So the RLS says: "Well the location of the lot is where we staked it. If that isn't where you are occupying contact you title company and have them help you fix it because everyone in that block has the same problem." The client hangs up and is now being threatened with a lawsuit.
Questions to Ponder:
1. Was there any direct supervision of anybody by the RLS?
2. Did the RLS evaluate the evidence of the boundary?
3. Where is Lot 9?
4. Was life better as a party chief or an RLS?
Thursday, August 15, 2013
More than Just Measurers
Every once in a awhile I have a tendency to forget what it is I am supposed to be doing when I survey a piece of property. I tend to fall back on the measurements. Mainly because this is the easiest of the chores that make up this profession. I focus hard on the math of the system and over look obvious signs that I am headed down the wrong road. This became clear to me recently when I was approached by a colleague from the metro-phoenix area whom had taken on a survey in my neck of the woods. Long story short; he found monuments that I had missed. The monuments he found basically shifted the property I had surveyed about 10 feet; it was planar shift so no area was compromised. After looking at the evidence he presented me; it was clear that I had to amend my survey and explain it to my client. I guess at this point I need to explain that my client has been a family friend since I was a toddler. My father had surveyed for them for decades and had passed the torch to me. So my relationship with client wasn't exactly cut and dry. So first I verified what the other surveyor found and corrected my survey. then I took my client to the property and walked the boundary and explained where I had failed. I showed my client where my monuments were and where they were supposed to be. then as they watched I pulled the erroneous monument and placed the correct one. Of course I have to pay for some fence to move (that I gladly offered to pay for) and at first the was shocked. However when I explained that moving a fence was cheaper than a court battle that they would surely lose; they became appreciative of the fact that I had come forward instead of trying to hide it. That struck me as odd. Why would I hide such a thing? I believe my integrity is more valuable than a fence and the although my pride took a well deserved hit. I would rather be a "stand up" guy than a sneak. In a small town like this you cannot gamble with your reputation. Making things "right" is far more precious than the almighty dollar.
Having the respect of a community as local expert is priceless. My father once told me that the goal of every surveyor should be to gain the respect of his family first, peers second, and the community third. Although my pride took a hit; I believe I took at least a step in that direction. My client actually thinks better of the situation now than when they did before. Sometimes you learn more from being wrong than being right and although the ego may get bruised in the process the lesson becomes solidified. At this point, I would rather the people who live in my area; think highly of my work than be concerned about my fees. I am starting to get there and it feels fine. Having a honest reputation, a strong work ethic, a professional attitude, and recognition from the community is the true meaning of success in my book. My mentor drilled that into my head and to some extent some of it took. Or at least that is what i was told by my client. Who gave me hug and bought me lunch. That don't happen everyday; but when it does its nice.
Having the respect of a community as local expert is priceless. My father once told me that the goal of every surveyor should be to gain the respect of his family first, peers second, and the community third. Although my pride took a hit; I believe I took at least a step in that direction. My client actually thinks better of the situation now than when they did before. Sometimes you learn more from being wrong than being right and although the ego may get bruised in the process the lesson becomes solidified. At this point, I would rather the people who live in my area; think highly of my work than be concerned about my fees. I am starting to get there and it feels fine. Having a honest reputation, a strong work ethic, a professional attitude, and recognition from the community is the true meaning of success in my book. My mentor drilled that into my head and to some extent some of it took. Or at least that is what i was told by my client. Who gave me hug and bought me lunch. That don't happen everyday; but when it does its nice.
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