Been having an interesting conversation lately about when the 90-day clock according to ARS 33-105 should kick in. Here is the statute:
33-105. Recording of certain land surveys; contentsA. A land surveyor shall file a record of a land survey not later than ninety days after its completion with the county recorder of the county where the land is located if such survey establishes points or lines relating to land boundaries or property lines disclosing:
1. A material discrepancy based on the accuracy requirements of the current survey which, in whole or in part, does not appear on any map or record previously recorded or filed with the county recorder, county engineer, highway division of the department of transportation or the United States bureau of land management.
2. Evidence that, by reasonable analysis, might result in alternate positions of lines or points.
B. The record of survey shall be a reproducible map, legibly drawn, printed or reproduced by a process assuring a permanent record as required by section 11-481.
C. The record of survey map shall show:
1. All monuments found, set, removed, reset or replaced, the kind, size and location of such monuments and all other data relating to such monuments.
2. Bearing and basis of bearings and length of lines to the nearest one one-hundredth of a foot and ties to witness monuments. Other record data may be shown in chains, varas or other units of measurement as implemented by older surveys.
3. Dates of survey, scale of map and north arrow or other means of orientation.
4. Name or designation of tract or grant in which the survey is located, ties to adjoining tracts or grants and section or sections, township, range and political subdivision of this state.
5. Any other data necessary for the intelligent interpretation of the various items and locations of the points, lines and areas shown.
D. The record of survey shall be securely fastened by the county recorder into a separate book provided for that purpose. The county recorder shall keep proper indices of such record of survey by the name of grant, tract, subdivision or cadastral subdivisions by United States bureau of land management or general land office.
I believe the 90-day clock starts when either you set a monument or find a monument that is not of record. So to expand that; here is my thought. I believe that when a Land Surveyor sets monuments the final boundary determination is made. Therefore the clock should start then. What happens to projects for government agencies, subdivisions, and minor land splits; they should be subject to the 90-days because of the agency review they are subject to.
Why should clock start at monumentation? Simple, that is when the notice is given to the adjoining property owners and the subject property. However there is some debate about when a project is considered complete. When the plat is signed and sealed? When the final bill is paid? When it is returned and approved an agency? To these I say no. The boundary survey is complete when the boundary determination is made and monumented. The plat is only a representation of how we derived our conclusion. The monuments are the conclusion; therefore they should rule the day. Consider this; the landowners immediately impacted by the survey will rely on the physical monument either to live by or in some cases steal by. It has been my experience that the only people who routinely place any value on a Record of Survey are Surveyors, Title Companies, and Lenders. Nobody else really cares. In fact if you (the practicing surveyor) were to call a client from a year ago and ask if they knew where a copy of their Record of Survey, you did for them was, they would tell probably say I don't know. But if you drove up and said "show me the monument I set for you last year" they would probably walk you right over to it. Now you could argue that same scenario as a reason to avoid recordation at all. Yes but then you'd forget the reason for recordation in the first place. It is so we can stop reinventing the wheel everytime someone needs a survey. Recording surveys benefits title companies, other surveyors, lenders, and anyone else interested in spatial data. Yet as far as the Record of Survey is concerned the person it benefits most, the land owner, is the one who cares least.
Today one of our own has been laid to rest. Dave Preisch of Tucson. Via Con Dios.
Friday, February 15, 2013
Monday, February 11, 2013
Out with the Old in with the New
Over the years dad and I have accumulated quite a bit of equipment. Most of it is from the era of traversing and we had to take stock in the situation. We are hard pressed to throw any thing away simply because replacement parts are hard to come by. Plus the nearset survey supply store is 200 plus miles away. So we we were sitting in the office and decided to see what was useful and what wasn't. We had on hand a set of Topcon Legacy RTK equipment, pre bluetooth that we don't use. A set of Hyper plus RTK equipment that is gathering dust. We have become a trimble shop so the Topcon stuff was laying around doing nothing but taking up space.
We concluded that we should make the Topcon equipment work for us so we traded it for a Robotic Total station. I can not wait to get my hands on it. I was a little disappointted that the Topcon gear didn't fetch a higher trade in but it is Pre L2C so it is only a matter of time before it is KAPUT. Plus we found out the "local" Topcon dealer would no longer support the legacy or the hyper so the decision was easy.
I wish the equipment dealers were a little more understanding but they are in the business of making money selling thelatest and greatest gizmoes. When the equipment relies on computer systems and such it is a little hard to keep up when they decide to no longer support the old technology and adopt new. So here we are. At least we can make the older gear work for us to aquire a robotic total station. It seems that will be of some benefit rather than sitting in the office not being used at all. So it will be somewhat of a win if at all.
I really hate trying to keep up with the technology race but some times you just have to.
We concluded that we should make the Topcon equipment work for us so we traded it for a Robotic Total station. I can not wait to get my hands on it. I was a little disappointted that the Topcon gear didn't fetch a higher trade in but it is Pre L2C so it is only a matter of time before it is KAPUT. Plus we found out the "local" Topcon dealer would no longer support the legacy or the hyper so the decision was easy.
I wish the equipment dealers were a little more understanding but they are in the business of making money selling thelatest and greatest gizmoes. When the equipment relies on computer systems and such it is a little hard to keep up when they decide to no longer support the old technology and adopt new. So here we are. At least we can make the older gear work for us to aquire a robotic total station. It seems that will be of some benefit rather than sitting in the office not being used at all. So it will be somewhat of a win if at all.
I really hate trying to keep up with the technology race but some times you just have to.
Friday, January 4, 2013
AHHHHH 2013
Well by all appearances it is clear we survived the end of the world on 12-21-2012. Or did we? Maybe the Maya were referring to the surveying profession as we know it. Anyone whom has survived this economy thus far is truly busting the hump getting the bills paid; or is a government employee.
On another note... I received an email from the Arizona Board of Technical Registration. It's purpose was to ask for my participation in a survey. The survey was about Continuing Education. This topic has been my drum beat for 3 going on 4 years now and I couldn't be more pleased. I will hit this hard later.
I have been elected as Chairman of APLS and to my dismay I indirectly received an email from a RLS member who is not happy with where APLS is going and has chosen to not participate any longer. This is truly a shame. Not because we will mourn the loss of dues but because he gave up the only weapon he had; the privilege to participate. I am not sure I recognize the rational but none the less the choice is his. Via con Dios. APLS must start to take a stand on issues and become somewhat controversial. I am sure we lose some in the end but I am optimistic that we will gain more as we go. I have seen this before.
APLS is having a general membership meeting on the 19th of January. The meeting info is on the APLS website on the calender. If you don't have plans come by I'd like to see you.
So typically the holiday day season causes our practice up here to grind to a slow crawl. To be honest I am not surprised nor disappointed. To be honest; If I could fix it to where I work down south in the winter and up here in the summer that would be awesome. However Murphy's Law dictates the inverse to be true.
Therefore my focus now is the year end paper work and tax preparation. I always enjoy this. In fact while preparing the paperwork for my tax lady I have "Ode to Joy" playing in the office. Nothing pleases me more than "rendering unto Caesar".
Sorry boys and girls I will have more next time.....
Viva La SALSA..
On another note... I received an email from the Arizona Board of Technical Registration. It's purpose was to ask for my participation in a survey. The survey was about Continuing Education. This topic has been my drum beat for 3 going on 4 years now and I couldn't be more pleased. I will hit this hard later.
I have been elected as Chairman of APLS and to my dismay I indirectly received an email from a RLS member who is not happy with where APLS is going and has chosen to not participate any longer. This is truly a shame. Not because we will mourn the loss of dues but because he gave up the only weapon he had; the privilege to participate. I am not sure I recognize the rational but none the less the choice is his. Via con Dios. APLS must start to take a stand on issues and become somewhat controversial. I am sure we lose some in the end but I am optimistic that we will gain more as we go. I have seen this before.
APLS is having a general membership meeting on the 19th of January. The meeting info is on the APLS website on the calender. If you don't have plans come by I'd like to see you.
So typically the holiday day season causes our practice up here to grind to a slow crawl. To be honest I am not surprised nor disappointed. To be honest; If I could fix it to where I work down south in the winter and up here in the summer that would be awesome. However Murphy's Law dictates the inverse to be true.
Therefore my focus now is the year end paper work and tax preparation. I always enjoy this. In fact while preparing the paperwork for my tax lady I have "Ode to Joy" playing in the office. Nothing pleases me more than "rendering unto Caesar".
Sorry boys and girls I will have more next time.....
Viva La SALSA..
Thursday, December 13, 2012
What and how to measure
I have noticed that within our profession there are two distinct schools of thought. The first being steeped in the science and exactitude of measurement. The second being steeped in the the tradition and art of evidence evaluation.
The science of measurement is and has always been the single greatest hurdle to the practice of surveying. It seems that no matter how good the device or magnificent the technology; the measurement is never good enough. I have met collegues whom have spent the entirety of thier career chasing measurements and publishing thier results. Redundant observations, adjustments, significant digits, least squares analysis, on and on the science goes. Yet for all this science; the end result can be EXACTLY wrong.
Now I am diligent in my efforts to observes data either with GPS or Terrestrail observation. However admittedly I rarely adjust anything. I report what I observe. I have a system of checks that keeps me out of trouble where blunders are concerned; however I have not bothered myself with adjustments. When I am in the field I rarely use a predetermined search area calculated from a deed. When I have done this I have found that it causes me to focus on the wrong information without opening my eyes to ALL the evidence. So as a matter of practice I will go to the site; locate the evidence of occupation and search for monuments based on other records of survey. Then when I get back to the office I plot out the evidence and then plot the deed and compare the two.
Boundary determination is an art. I have said over and over. You have to be able to see it, touch it, smell it. How many times have you seen a cluster of survey markers (pins and caps) around a corner. Many an expert measurer has determined their mathematical solution and have place thier mark on the earth. Yet how many times does it occur that admidst this cluster of markers not a single one of them can be called the monument marking the property corner? Why is it so difficult to accept a previously set monument? COGO-COMMANDOS.........
Unskilled para-professionals that have supervisory RLS's that don't take the time to take these guys to field and "raise" them properly. There is a subdivision up here in the Metro Round Valley area that has what I call the Maricopa County virus. The developer hired a PE/RLS to develop a subdivision. The exterior of the development was surveyed in 2001 by a RLS up here. The PE/RLS resurveyed it and platted a subdivision in 2003. In 2005, the cogo commandos show up to set the subdivision pins marking all the lots; by the way same PE/RLS.
Last week I am asked to survey an adjoining property to the subdivision and what do I find.....I find aluminum cap monuments set by the 2001 survey. Then 0.65 feet away are rebar and plastic caps bearing the number of the PE/RLS. The subdivision plat showed these exterior corners as found and accepted monuments. All I can say is REALLY!!!???!!!
It is obvious that the field crew data collector jockies were just stakinbg out points and setting pins. But where is the alleged professional in responsible charge? He obviously wasn't bothering himself with training his survey crew. You know, going outside is hot/cold, there are bugs, you get sweaty, and the stickers tear holes in your slacks.
Well if the boss won't educate them; somebody needs to.
The science of measurement is and has always been the single greatest hurdle to the practice of surveying. It seems that no matter how good the device or magnificent the technology; the measurement is never good enough. I have met collegues whom have spent the entirety of thier career chasing measurements and publishing thier results. Redundant observations, adjustments, significant digits, least squares analysis, on and on the science goes. Yet for all this science; the end result can be EXACTLY wrong.
Now I am diligent in my efforts to observes data either with GPS or Terrestrail observation. However admittedly I rarely adjust anything. I report what I observe. I have a system of checks that keeps me out of trouble where blunders are concerned; however I have not bothered myself with adjustments. When I am in the field I rarely use a predetermined search area calculated from a deed. When I have done this I have found that it causes me to focus on the wrong information without opening my eyes to ALL the evidence. So as a matter of practice I will go to the site; locate the evidence of occupation and search for monuments based on other records of survey. Then when I get back to the office I plot out the evidence and then plot the deed and compare the two.
Boundary determination is an art. I have said over and over. You have to be able to see it, touch it, smell it. How many times have you seen a cluster of survey markers (pins and caps) around a corner. Many an expert measurer has determined their mathematical solution and have place thier mark on the earth. Yet how many times does it occur that admidst this cluster of markers not a single one of them can be called the monument marking the property corner? Why is it so difficult to accept a previously set monument? COGO-COMMANDOS.........
Unskilled para-professionals that have supervisory RLS's that don't take the time to take these guys to field and "raise" them properly. There is a subdivision up here in the Metro Round Valley area that has what I call the Maricopa County virus. The developer hired a PE/RLS to develop a subdivision. The exterior of the development was surveyed in 2001 by a RLS up here. The PE/RLS resurveyed it and platted a subdivision in 2003. In 2005, the cogo commandos show up to set the subdivision pins marking all the lots; by the way same PE/RLS.
Last week I am asked to survey an adjoining property to the subdivision and what do I find.....I find aluminum cap monuments set by the 2001 survey. Then 0.65 feet away are rebar and plastic caps bearing the number of the PE/RLS. The subdivision plat showed these exterior corners as found and accepted monuments. All I can say is REALLY!!!???!!!
It is obvious that the field crew data collector jockies were just stakinbg out points and setting pins. But where is the alleged professional in responsible charge? He obviously wasn't bothering himself with training his survey crew. You know, going outside is hot/cold, there are bugs, you get sweaty, and the stickers tear holes in your slacks.
Well if the boss won't educate them; somebody needs to.
Friday, November 16, 2012
Looking Forward
Last Saturday on the 10th I was honored to have been elected the Chairman of the Board of Directors for the Arizona Professional Land Surveyors association. I have always felt that a professional should always give back to the profession they work in. As a means of educating and serving the profession; to keep it moving forward.
As hard times have enveloped our state and thus all but shut down our profession. Now is the time that service is needed most. APLS is going to be getting proactive on several issues; it would be nice if our membership would use this down time to get engaged. The internet, email, the cell phone, a simple letter; whatever. Let the Chapter directors know how you feel about whatever it is that needs to be addressed.
I am looking forward to serving APLS for the next 2 years. Here is my vision:
1. I would like to see Continuing Education adopted by the BTR
2. I would like to see the Minimum Standards updated and adopted by the BTR
3. I would like to see the State Specific exam re-opened and updated
4. I would like to see the reqiurements for licensure be updated to include the following structure:
A. a 4-year degree and 4 years of experience
B. 36 hrs of surveying classes and 10 years of experience
C. 15 years of experience in responsible charge.
If one of those gets done I will be happy. As far as Item #4 is concerned; I honestly beleive that because of the way our para-professionals are being trained a blanket 4-5 years of experience is not sufficient.
Let me know what you think.
As hard times have enveloped our state and thus all but shut down our profession. Now is the time that service is needed most. APLS is going to be getting proactive on several issues; it would be nice if our membership would use this down time to get engaged. The internet, email, the cell phone, a simple letter; whatever. Let the Chapter directors know how you feel about whatever it is that needs to be addressed.
I am looking forward to serving APLS for the next 2 years. Here is my vision:
1. I would like to see Continuing Education adopted by the BTR
2. I would like to see the Minimum Standards updated and adopted by the BTR
3. I would like to see the State Specific exam re-opened and updated
4. I would like to see the reqiurements for licensure be updated to include the following structure:
A. a 4-year degree and 4 years of experience
B. 36 hrs of surveying classes and 10 years of experience
C. 15 years of experience in responsible charge.
If one of those gets done I will be happy. As far as Item #4 is concerned; I honestly beleive that because of the way our para-professionals are being trained a blanket 4-5 years of experience is not sufficient.
Let me know what you think.
Monday, October 29, 2012
Monuments....
On the 23rd of October I went to a meeting at the Arizona State Board of Technical Registration. During the course of this meeting one of the issues discussed was "street monuments" being reset by non-surveyors. This is a HUGE issue for every surveyor practicing in Arizona. These street monuments are primarily used to control the location of private property.
Therefore it is completely within the perveiw of the Registered Land Surveyor to reset them and file either a monument record or a Record of Survey. However, some feel that this is a function of construction and not surveying. Simply put this stance is wrong. It also came out that there was some question as to wether or not these monuments need a RLS number on them. Well the short answer there is, yes they do.
To my knowledge there is ONLY one government agency within the United States that doesn't need a state issued license to practice surveying (specific to boundary surveying) it is the US Deptpartment of Interior, Brach of Cadastral Survey. Therefore it is safe to assume that unless the BLM is setting street monuments anywhere in Arizona; those monuments need a RLS number on them. The Arizona Revised Statutes and the Arizona Adminstrative Code are very clear on this.
Anyone whom has endeavored to practice in this state has come across controlling monuments that fall in the street. Cities and Counties have been engaged for years in street improvement projects everywhere. Yet few if any, of the various agencies involved in this activity have paid much attention to the issue of destroying survey monumentation and replacing it. Many that have in more recent history are not paying attention to the legal ramifications of "non-restrants" putting these monuments back.
This is one issue that APLS needs to take on. However I don't think our releif is with the BTR. The BTR is not a policing agency for other goverment agencies. They regulate the practice of the professions they encompass. So where does the releif come from? It comes from educating the agencies guilty of the activity. APLS must be in a position to send a letter of concern to every agency that is either destroying the monumentation or replacing it with non-registrants. I beleive that educating these agnecies through their prospective legal councils is the key. The White Mountain Chapter of APLS did this with a Town up here and it worked. I beleive this is the key, not the BTR. So every Chapter of APLS needs to be vigilent for this.
So I propose APLS needs to draft a letter to every jurisdiction we know is in violation; addressed to either the County Attorney or the City Attorney (which ever) and the politicians that govern these agencies; addressing our concerns and attempt to educate. The White Mountain Chapter did it and other chapters can also. The bonus here is that APLS is the fall guy. No particular surveyor is on the hook (except maybe the chapter president or the chairman of the board); so the politics of the situation should not get in the way. However as an organization APLS needs to be proactive and take this on. Before we task the offenders with responsibility we, APLS, need to assume a leadership role in bringing the law and rules forward in an attempt to educate them. If at that point we get ignored; then we take it to the next level and file complaints to the legal authorities governing and overseeing these activities individually. But I would prefer that the attorneys advising these agencies would take our letter(s) to heart and advise those agencies to correct the behavior.
But again let me be clear; I don't think this is the job of the BTR. They police our activities. We need to let the Arizona Revised Statutes do the talking for us; not be a road block. Just a thought.
Therefore it is completely within the perveiw of the Registered Land Surveyor to reset them and file either a monument record or a Record of Survey. However, some feel that this is a function of construction and not surveying. Simply put this stance is wrong. It also came out that there was some question as to wether or not these monuments need a RLS number on them. Well the short answer there is, yes they do.
To my knowledge there is ONLY one government agency within the United States that doesn't need a state issued license to practice surveying (specific to boundary surveying) it is the US Deptpartment of Interior, Brach of Cadastral Survey. Therefore it is safe to assume that unless the BLM is setting street monuments anywhere in Arizona; those monuments need a RLS number on them. The Arizona Revised Statutes and the Arizona Adminstrative Code are very clear on this.
Anyone whom has endeavored to practice in this state has come across controlling monuments that fall in the street. Cities and Counties have been engaged for years in street improvement projects everywhere. Yet few if any, of the various agencies involved in this activity have paid much attention to the issue of destroying survey monumentation and replacing it. Many that have in more recent history are not paying attention to the legal ramifications of "non-restrants" putting these monuments back.
This is one issue that APLS needs to take on. However I don't think our releif is with the BTR. The BTR is not a policing agency for other goverment agencies. They regulate the practice of the professions they encompass. So where does the releif come from? It comes from educating the agencies guilty of the activity. APLS must be in a position to send a letter of concern to every agency that is either destroying the monumentation or replacing it with non-registrants. I beleive that educating these agnecies through their prospective legal councils is the key. The White Mountain Chapter of APLS did this with a Town up here and it worked. I beleive this is the key, not the BTR. So every Chapter of APLS needs to be vigilent for this.
So I propose APLS needs to draft a letter to every jurisdiction we know is in violation; addressed to either the County Attorney or the City Attorney (which ever) and the politicians that govern these agencies; addressing our concerns and attempt to educate. The White Mountain Chapter did it and other chapters can also. The bonus here is that APLS is the fall guy. No particular surveyor is on the hook (except maybe the chapter president or the chairman of the board); so the politics of the situation should not get in the way. However as an organization APLS needs to be proactive and take this on. Before we task the offenders with responsibility we, APLS, need to assume a leadership role in bringing the law and rules forward in an attempt to educate them. If at that point we get ignored; then we take it to the next level and file complaints to the legal authorities governing and overseeing these activities individually. But I would prefer that the attorneys advising these agencies would take our letter(s) to heart and advise those agencies to correct the behavior.
But again let me be clear; I don't think this is the job of the BTR. They police our activities. We need to let the Arizona Revised Statutes do the talking for us; not be a road block. Just a thought.
Monday, October 8, 2012
Now What!?
So we had an interesting day in the field today. Had to use an instrument and actually traverse. It was fun. It gave us a chance to get some old juices flowing. During the course of our survey we were retracing an old un recorded survey from 1946. Those boys did some good work given the broken terrain and dense cover. They set 1 inch pipes at the monuments and we found most of them. A good day in anybodies book. BUT; within a foot of these pipes we found rebar and caps. No record of survey and they hadn't been there long enough to be exempt from the recording statute. So we head back to the office and look the guy up and give him a call.
Well he didn't know why it wasn't recorded and had no intention since the engineering firm he worked for was no longer in business. Then he goes on to say just pull them out. Well that didn;t sit well. A fence had been built to them so they have been relied on dispite the erronoeus location. So now what?
At first thought one might get mad and take to the BTR. A second thought is to show the erronoeous pins and thier relation to the original monuments or the reset points based thereon. Is it just me or isn't there some level of responsibility that goes along with seeting a monument if you fin out it it is wrong? Or can we just walk away and never look back. I know how I feel about it. What does the bloggoshere think?
On another note. A long time compadre of dad and mine is retiring and having a get together in Tucson. I can't make it. So I just want to say "Via con Dios" to Haze.. He is one of the people who tought me how to have fun while surveying and I look back foundly and the times we worked together. He was really patient with the snot nosed kid who was following him around. The two fondest memories were freezing our asses off Nutrioso, and distance meter lense cap fiasco at the airport in Springerville. Good times; and worth laughing about now. For the moment I will keep them just for me and those involved.
And to the rest of my comrades in the south land "Viva LA SALSA"......
Well he didn't know why it wasn't recorded and had no intention since the engineering firm he worked for was no longer in business. Then he goes on to say just pull them out. Well that didn;t sit well. A fence had been built to them so they have been relied on dispite the erronoeus location. So now what?
At first thought one might get mad and take to the BTR. A second thought is to show the erronoeous pins and thier relation to the original monuments or the reset points based thereon. Is it just me or isn't there some level of responsibility that goes along with seeting a monument if you fin out it it is wrong? Or can we just walk away and never look back. I know how I feel about it. What does the bloggoshere think?
On another note. A long time compadre of dad and mine is retiring and having a get together in Tucson. I can't make it. So I just want to say "Via con Dios" to Haze.. He is one of the people who tought me how to have fun while surveying and I look back foundly and the times we worked together. He was really patient with the snot nosed kid who was following him around. The two fondest memories were freezing our asses off Nutrioso, and distance meter lense cap fiasco at the airport in Springerville. Good times; and worth laughing about now. For the moment I will keep them just for me and those involved.
And to the rest of my comrades in the south land "Viva LA SALSA"......
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