I have noticed that within our profession there are two distinct schools of thought. The first being steeped in the science and exactitude of measurement. The second being steeped in the the tradition and art of evidence evaluation.
The science of measurement is and has always been the single greatest hurdle to the practice of surveying. It seems that no matter how good the device or magnificent the technology; the measurement is never good enough. I have met collegues whom have spent the entirety of thier career chasing measurements and publishing thier results. Redundant observations, adjustments, significant digits, least squares analysis, on and on the science goes. Yet for all this science; the end result can be EXACTLY wrong.
Now I am diligent in my efforts to observes data either with GPS or Terrestrail observation. However admittedly I rarely adjust anything. I report what I observe. I have a system of checks that keeps me out of trouble where blunders are concerned; however I have not bothered myself with adjustments. When I am in the field I rarely use a predetermined search area calculated from a deed. When I have done this I have found that it causes me to focus on the wrong information without opening my eyes to ALL the evidence. So as a matter of practice I will go to the site; locate the evidence of occupation and search for monuments based on other records of survey. Then when I get back to the office I plot out the evidence and then plot the deed and compare the two.
Boundary determination is an art. I have said over and over. You have to be able to see it, touch it, smell it. How many times have you seen a cluster of survey markers (pins and caps) around a corner. Many an expert measurer has determined their mathematical solution and have place thier mark on the earth. Yet how many times does it occur that admidst this cluster of markers not a single one of them can be called the monument marking the property corner? Why is it so difficult to accept a previously set monument? COGO-COMMANDOS.........
Unskilled para-professionals that have supervisory RLS's that don't take the time to take these guys to field and "raise" them properly. There is a subdivision up here in the Metro Round Valley area that has what I call the Maricopa County virus. The developer hired a PE/RLS to develop a subdivision. The exterior of the development was surveyed in 2001 by a RLS up here. The PE/RLS resurveyed it and platted a subdivision in 2003. In 2005, the cogo commandos show up to set the subdivision pins marking all the lots; by the way same PE/RLS.
Last week I am asked to survey an adjoining property to the subdivision and what do I find.....I find aluminum cap monuments set by the 2001 survey. Then 0.65 feet away are rebar and plastic caps bearing the number of the PE/RLS. The subdivision plat showed these exterior corners as found and accepted monuments. All I can say is REALLY!!!???!!!
It is obvious that the field crew data collector jockies were just stakinbg out points and setting pins. But where is the alleged professional in responsible charge? He obviously wasn't bothering himself with training his survey crew. You know, going outside is hot/cold, there are bugs, you get sweaty, and the stickers tear holes in your slacks.
Well if the boss won't educate them; somebody needs to.
Thursday, December 13, 2012
Friday, November 16, 2012
Looking Forward
Last Saturday on the 10th I was honored to have been elected the Chairman of the Board of Directors for the Arizona Professional Land Surveyors association. I have always felt that a professional should always give back to the profession they work in. As a means of educating and serving the profession; to keep it moving forward.
As hard times have enveloped our state and thus all but shut down our profession. Now is the time that service is needed most. APLS is going to be getting proactive on several issues; it would be nice if our membership would use this down time to get engaged. The internet, email, the cell phone, a simple letter; whatever. Let the Chapter directors know how you feel about whatever it is that needs to be addressed.
I am looking forward to serving APLS for the next 2 years. Here is my vision:
1. I would like to see Continuing Education adopted by the BTR
2. I would like to see the Minimum Standards updated and adopted by the BTR
3. I would like to see the State Specific exam re-opened and updated
4. I would like to see the reqiurements for licensure be updated to include the following structure:
A. a 4-year degree and 4 years of experience
B. 36 hrs of surveying classes and 10 years of experience
C. 15 years of experience in responsible charge.
If one of those gets done I will be happy. As far as Item #4 is concerned; I honestly beleive that because of the way our para-professionals are being trained a blanket 4-5 years of experience is not sufficient.
Let me know what you think.
As hard times have enveloped our state and thus all but shut down our profession. Now is the time that service is needed most. APLS is going to be getting proactive on several issues; it would be nice if our membership would use this down time to get engaged. The internet, email, the cell phone, a simple letter; whatever. Let the Chapter directors know how you feel about whatever it is that needs to be addressed.
I am looking forward to serving APLS for the next 2 years. Here is my vision:
1. I would like to see Continuing Education adopted by the BTR
2. I would like to see the Minimum Standards updated and adopted by the BTR
3. I would like to see the State Specific exam re-opened and updated
4. I would like to see the reqiurements for licensure be updated to include the following structure:
A. a 4-year degree and 4 years of experience
B. 36 hrs of surveying classes and 10 years of experience
C. 15 years of experience in responsible charge.
If one of those gets done I will be happy. As far as Item #4 is concerned; I honestly beleive that because of the way our para-professionals are being trained a blanket 4-5 years of experience is not sufficient.
Let me know what you think.
Monday, October 29, 2012
Monuments....
On the 23rd of October I went to a meeting at the Arizona State Board of Technical Registration. During the course of this meeting one of the issues discussed was "street monuments" being reset by non-surveyors. This is a HUGE issue for every surveyor practicing in Arizona. These street monuments are primarily used to control the location of private property.
Therefore it is completely within the perveiw of the Registered Land Surveyor to reset them and file either a monument record or a Record of Survey. However, some feel that this is a function of construction and not surveying. Simply put this stance is wrong. It also came out that there was some question as to wether or not these monuments need a RLS number on them. Well the short answer there is, yes they do.
To my knowledge there is ONLY one government agency within the United States that doesn't need a state issued license to practice surveying (specific to boundary surveying) it is the US Deptpartment of Interior, Brach of Cadastral Survey. Therefore it is safe to assume that unless the BLM is setting street monuments anywhere in Arizona; those monuments need a RLS number on them. The Arizona Revised Statutes and the Arizona Adminstrative Code are very clear on this.
Anyone whom has endeavored to practice in this state has come across controlling monuments that fall in the street. Cities and Counties have been engaged for years in street improvement projects everywhere. Yet few if any, of the various agencies involved in this activity have paid much attention to the issue of destroying survey monumentation and replacing it. Many that have in more recent history are not paying attention to the legal ramifications of "non-restrants" putting these monuments back.
This is one issue that APLS needs to take on. However I don't think our releif is with the BTR. The BTR is not a policing agency for other goverment agencies. They regulate the practice of the professions they encompass. So where does the releif come from? It comes from educating the agencies guilty of the activity. APLS must be in a position to send a letter of concern to every agency that is either destroying the monumentation or replacing it with non-registrants. I beleive that educating these agnecies through their prospective legal councils is the key. The White Mountain Chapter of APLS did this with a Town up here and it worked. I beleive this is the key, not the BTR. So every Chapter of APLS needs to be vigilent for this.
So I propose APLS needs to draft a letter to every jurisdiction we know is in violation; addressed to either the County Attorney or the City Attorney (which ever) and the politicians that govern these agencies; addressing our concerns and attempt to educate. The White Mountain Chapter did it and other chapters can also. The bonus here is that APLS is the fall guy. No particular surveyor is on the hook (except maybe the chapter president or the chairman of the board); so the politics of the situation should not get in the way. However as an organization APLS needs to be proactive and take this on. Before we task the offenders with responsibility we, APLS, need to assume a leadership role in bringing the law and rules forward in an attempt to educate them. If at that point we get ignored; then we take it to the next level and file complaints to the legal authorities governing and overseeing these activities individually. But I would prefer that the attorneys advising these agencies would take our letter(s) to heart and advise those agencies to correct the behavior.
But again let me be clear; I don't think this is the job of the BTR. They police our activities. We need to let the Arizona Revised Statutes do the talking for us; not be a road block. Just a thought.
Therefore it is completely within the perveiw of the Registered Land Surveyor to reset them and file either a monument record or a Record of Survey. However, some feel that this is a function of construction and not surveying. Simply put this stance is wrong. It also came out that there was some question as to wether or not these monuments need a RLS number on them. Well the short answer there is, yes they do.
To my knowledge there is ONLY one government agency within the United States that doesn't need a state issued license to practice surveying (specific to boundary surveying) it is the US Deptpartment of Interior, Brach of Cadastral Survey. Therefore it is safe to assume that unless the BLM is setting street monuments anywhere in Arizona; those monuments need a RLS number on them. The Arizona Revised Statutes and the Arizona Adminstrative Code are very clear on this.
Anyone whom has endeavored to practice in this state has come across controlling monuments that fall in the street. Cities and Counties have been engaged for years in street improvement projects everywhere. Yet few if any, of the various agencies involved in this activity have paid much attention to the issue of destroying survey monumentation and replacing it. Many that have in more recent history are not paying attention to the legal ramifications of "non-restrants" putting these monuments back.
This is one issue that APLS needs to take on. However I don't think our releif is with the BTR. The BTR is not a policing agency for other goverment agencies. They regulate the practice of the professions they encompass. So where does the releif come from? It comes from educating the agencies guilty of the activity. APLS must be in a position to send a letter of concern to every agency that is either destroying the monumentation or replacing it with non-registrants. I beleive that educating these agnecies through their prospective legal councils is the key. The White Mountain Chapter of APLS did this with a Town up here and it worked. I beleive this is the key, not the BTR. So every Chapter of APLS needs to be vigilent for this.
So I propose APLS needs to draft a letter to every jurisdiction we know is in violation; addressed to either the County Attorney or the City Attorney (which ever) and the politicians that govern these agencies; addressing our concerns and attempt to educate. The White Mountain Chapter did it and other chapters can also. The bonus here is that APLS is the fall guy. No particular surveyor is on the hook (except maybe the chapter president or the chairman of the board); so the politics of the situation should not get in the way. However as an organization APLS needs to be proactive and take this on. Before we task the offenders with responsibility we, APLS, need to assume a leadership role in bringing the law and rules forward in an attempt to educate them. If at that point we get ignored; then we take it to the next level and file complaints to the legal authorities governing and overseeing these activities individually. But I would prefer that the attorneys advising these agencies would take our letter(s) to heart and advise those agencies to correct the behavior.
But again let me be clear; I don't think this is the job of the BTR. They police our activities. We need to let the Arizona Revised Statutes do the talking for us; not be a road block. Just a thought.
Monday, October 8, 2012
Now What!?
So we had an interesting day in the field today. Had to use an instrument and actually traverse. It was fun. It gave us a chance to get some old juices flowing. During the course of our survey we were retracing an old un recorded survey from 1946. Those boys did some good work given the broken terrain and dense cover. They set 1 inch pipes at the monuments and we found most of them. A good day in anybodies book. BUT; within a foot of these pipes we found rebar and caps. No record of survey and they hadn't been there long enough to be exempt from the recording statute. So we head back to the office and look the guy up and give him a call.
Well he didn't know why it wasn't recorded and had no intention since the engineering firm he worked for was no longer in business. Then he goes on to say just pull them out. Well that didn;t sit well. A fence had been built to them so they have been relied on dispite the erronoeus location. So now what?
At first thought one might get mad and take to the BTR. A second thought is to show the erronoeous pins and thier relation to the original monuments or the reset points based thereon. Is it just me or isn't there some level of responsibility that goes along with seeting a monument if you fin out it it is wrong? Or can we just walk away and never look back. I know how I feel about it. What does the bloggoshere think?
On another note. A long time compadre of dad and mine is retiring and having a get together in Tucson. I can't make it. So I just want to say "Via con Dios" to Haze.. He is one of the people who tought me how to have fun while surveying and I look back foundly and the times we worked together. He was really patient with the snot nosed kid who was following him around. The two fondest memories were freezing our asses off Nutrioso, and distance meter lense cap fiasco at the airport in Springerville. Good times; and worth laughing about now. For the moment I will keep them just for me and those involved.
And to the rest of my comrades in the south land "Viva LA SALSA"......
Well he didn't know why it wasn't recorded and had no intention since the engineering firm he worked for was no longer in business. Then he goes on to say just pull them out. Well that didn;t sit well. A fence had been built to them so they have been relied on dispite the erronoeus location. So now what?
At first thought one might get mad and take to the BTR. A second thought is to show the erronoeous pins and thier relation to the original monuments or the reset points based thereon. Is it just me or isn't there some level of responsibility that goes along with seeting a monument if you fin out it it is wrong? Or can we just walk away and never look back. I know how I feel about it. What does the bloggoshere think?
On another note. A long time compadre of dad and mine is retiring and having a get together in Tucson. I can't make it. So I just want to say "Via con Dios" to Haze.. He is one of the people who tought me how to have fun while surveying and I look back foundly and the times we worked together. He was really patient with the snot nosed kid who was following him around. The two fondest memories were freezing our asses off Nutrioso, and distance meter lense cap fiasco at the airport in Springerville. Good times; and worth laughing about now. For the moment I will keep them just for me and those involved.
And to the rest of my comrades in the south land "Viva LA SALSA"......
Wednesday, October 3, 2012
Gila County Again....
So there I was basking in the glory of victory thinking I had slain the dragon. OH NOOOOOOOO. I went to a meeting last Tuesday with one of my Gila County clients who informed me that he had received a phone call from "someone" at Gila County informing him that my plat was in error and I refused to fix it; and they thought he should know.
So here I am at a cross roads... I can either go ballistic and unleash the dogs of war. Making Gila County my personal vendetta forever. Or I can chuckle at the petty attempt by this egg sucking goverment employee to get me in trouble.
(pregnant pause for effect)
I chuckled with my client as we both discussed how laim Gila County was for making the call. I am exploring what recourse I have against this individual. As I beleive HE is a registrant and if so, I will make him a personal interest. I do beleive ethical boundaries have been crossed. Working for the county may protect him from being stupid but it does not absolve him of responsibility for it.
So here I am at a cross roads... I can either go ballistic and unleash the dogs of war. Making Gila County my personal vendetta forever. Or I can chuckle at the petty attempt by this egg sucking goverment employee to get me in trouble.
(pregnant pause for effect)
I chuckled with my client as we both discussed how laim Gila County was for making the call. I am exploring what recourse I have against this individual. As I beleive HE is a registrant and if so, I will make him a personal interest. I do beleive ethical boundaries have been crossed. Working for the county may protect him from being stupid but it does not absolve him of responsibility for it.
Monday, September 24, 2012
Be Firm and Positive
OK so my dealings with the "Peoples Republic of Gila County" has ended on a somewhat positive note. It appears the plat I sent with the attached letter made an impression as it was recorded the day it was received. Here is what I did:
1. I sent it, certified mail return receipt requested. That way I could prove when they received it.
2. I included my check and a letter citing the Arizona Revised Statutes 11-471, 11-477, 11-481.
So I got my point across. However I want to point something out that we all need to keep in mind. At no time; even in the height of my anger did I loose my cool and become loud or abusive. Nor did I use profanity. We need to keep in mind we are professionals and when should never treat colleagues, clients, government employees or anyone else that may or may noy qualifiy to be a human beings; poorly or with bad manners intentionally. The only reason I got them to listen to me is because I never got abussive with gesture or language. This is important.
The County Recorder and Community Development Department are our friends. Yes they can go astray sometimes but we need a good working relationship with them. Just as they need us. I am still pursuing the issue but on much easier terms. I drove my point home and it stuck. Now I will set out to make sure other surveyors don't have to do the same.
Viva la SALSA
1. I sent it, certified mail return receipt requested. That way I could prove when they received it.
2. I included my check and a letter citing the Arizona Revised Statutes 11-471, 11-477, 11-481.
So I got my point across. However I want to point something out that we all need to keep in mind. At no time; even in the height of my anger did I loose my cool and become loud or abusive. Nor did I use profanity. We need to keep in mind we are professionals and when should never treat colleagues, clients, government employees or anyone else that may or may noy qualifiy to be a human beings; poorly or with bad manners intentionally. The only reason I got them to listen to me is because I never got abussive with gesture or language. This is important.
The County Recorder and Community Development Department are our friends. Yes they can go astray sometimes but we need a good working relationship with them. Just as they need us. I am still pursuing the issue but on much easier terms. I drove my point home and it stuck. Now I will set out to make sure other surveyors don't have to do the same.
Viva la SALSA
Thursday, September 20, 2012
Gila County Part 3
Sorry for the late update. Tuesday was a really productive day in my opinion; in dealing with the folks in Gila County Government. first I want to acknowledge that these are well intentioned and conscientious folks. It is the methodology that is flawed.
I had an in depth conversation with the Director of Community Development for Gila County and he basically spelled it out. They want to review every type of survey as a means keeping up with whats going on in Gila County. I can't argue with that. What we discussed was simple. He was in no position to "review" Records of Survey and hinder the recording process. He agreed in part but was infattic about keeping the process in place. I suggested that if he reviewed the surveys before they were recorded and sent them back to have "issues" addressed that he was opening himself and the county up to legal action. He disagreed. But I think his department is complicit in the blatant violation of ARS 11-477(read it, its juicy). So as the conversation went on he advised me that the land surveyor(s) in his department review surveys to protect the public. I responded by saying, in my opinion these individuals may be breaching their ethical responsibility since they have no right to review a Record of Survey BEFORE it is a matter of public record. That made the man think.
Then I went on to say that I emphatically refused to submit myself to having any of my surveys reviewed. He came back with my clients won't be issued any permits from the county unless they are reviewed. To which I replied give me that in writing. So then I brought up having plats sent out to the communities in Gila County for Review. He did agree that perhaps this was far reaching but contended that the towns also had the right to stay informed. I can't argue with that except to say AFTER recordation yes; BEFORE recordation no.
So basically; here is where I am at. If the bureaucrats of Gila County continue to obstruct my lawful recordation of Records of Survey then I will have no choice but to seek legal action to stop it.
At this point APLS needs to get involved with the counties and work to educate them. I am working on Gila County; So split up and move forward. My brother's in arms (SALSA) have been working with Pima County. Regionaly we need to keep the awareness in the fore front. Otherwise the governing jurisdictions will run over the top of us.
Viva La SALSA
I had an in depth conversation with the Director of Community Development for Gila County and he basically spelled it out. They want to review every type of survey as a means keeping up with whats going on in Gila County. I can't argue with that. What we discussed was simple. He was in no position to "review" Records of Survey and hinder the recording process. He agreed in part but was infattic about keeping the process in place. I suggested that if he reviewed the surveys before they were recorded and sent them back to have "issues" addressed that he was opening himself and the county up to legal action. He disagreed. But I think his department is complicit in the blatant violation of ARS 11-477(read it, its juicy). So as the conversation went on he advised me that the land surveyor(s) in his department review surveys to protect the public. I responded by saying, in my opinion these individuals may be breaching their ethical responsibility since they have no right to review a Record of Survey BEFORE it is a matter of public record. That made the man think.
Then I went on to say that I emphatically refused to submit myself to having any of my surveys reviewed. He came back with my clients won't be issued any permits from the county unless they are reviewed. To which I replied give me that in writing. So then I brought up having plats sent out to the communities in Gila County for Review. He did agree that perhaps this was far reaching but contended that the towns also had the right to stay informed. I can't argue with that except to say AFTER recordation yes; BEFORE recordation no.
So basically; here is where I am at. If the bureaucrats of Gila County continue to obstruct my lawful recordation of Records of Survey then I will have no choice but to seek legal action to stop it.
At this point APLS needs to get involved with the counties and work to educate them. I am working on Gila County; So split up and move forward. My brother's in arms (SALSA) have been working with Pima County. Regionaly we need to keep the awareness in the fore front. Otherwise the governing jurisdictions will run over the top of us.
Viva La SALSA
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)